Stop Enabling: Boundaries You Need After Rehab

The Core Question: Boundaries After Rehab

Guest: How do they set appropriate boundaries like for a loved one coming out of a program like Teen Challenge or any other recovery center? Right. And and um ease their way back into the home without being overbearing or, you know, whatever that might look like.

Justin: Yeah. Well, uh, you know, in black culture, we don't um we don't take any BS as they would say, they just put you right back out there. But um no, uh I've read this book, um what was it, Boundaries for Adults or something like that, by Henry Cloud, if I'm remembering correctly. But something that always stuck out to me in that book was not being able to see your child as a child anymore, right? But as the adult that they are. And I think the thing is, is when we look at it from that perspective, almost as if they were an eagle and in the nest, and not them not realizing their ability to be able to fly and soar and prosper in life, you kind of have to slowly but surely nudge them just a little bit and give them enough room to fail under your covering, but show the grace and the mercy and then point them back to the father. I think sometimes what ends up happening

See Your Child As An Adult

Justin: for a lot of parents is they want to deliver their child from the mess that they got themselves in. They want to help them, but it's like, no, you're down. How did you get out of this? What tools and practices did you learn in the center? And then having that healthy conversation. So that's a good boundary. It's not you stepping in and being their savior. It's saying, wait, no, Christ delivered them from this. Through the program, they've learned some great principles and strategies in order to find success in the real world. Let's talk about what you learn and how can we implement it together. Yeah. Not me doing it for you and always being that way of escape.

Guest: Yeah, that's good. You know, one of the things we have to do at Teen Challenge as a part of accreditation, we have a uh crisis manual.

Guest: Yeah.

Guest: And the crisis manual, you when you look at it prior, like in the middle of an event, like prior to an event, you're putting it all together, it's like, we're in the mountains of Virginia. When is there ever going to be a tornado? Yeah. You know, and you kind of look through it and like this is crazy. But then you start to think through it, and like there's a plan on paper for everything. Right. Right? Like if something terrible happens, who talks to the media? Right. Right? Who who does this? Who calls the families? And and all the details are there. And the

Crisis Plans And Clear Communication

Guest: thing about that is that you don't need that when everything's fine.

Guest: Right.

Guest: You need the crisis plan when things happen. So one time we had a fire on the mountain when we used to have the whole campus. And like within minutes, some of the staff were posting pictures of smoke billowing out of the side of the center. And I'm getting calls from all these family members, right? Because like communication hadn't happened ahead of time. Right. And we didn't have that plan in place, you know, on how to deal with things. And so then, of course, I got students like calling their family and saying, I lost everything in the fire. Like nothing was lost in the fire. You know, all that craziness going on. But I said all that to say, like, putting the plan in place ahead of time.

Guest: Yeah.

Guest: A lot of the boundaries typically break down because there wasn't communication about the boundary ahead of time. Yeah. And so I think, and even my wife and I have struggles with this sometimes. Like, well, you we've been married long enough, you should know my boundary. And it's like, well, yes, I know some of them, but things change. People evolve. What maybe was a boundary for you 10 years ago isn't today. And so if there is a new boundary or something that you expect of me, then let's communicate that so that we don't end up in a place of offense and disagreement just because of lack of communication.

Justin: Dude, that's so good that you're talking about communication because that is something that my wife and I are still dealing with to this day, and we're a decade into being married.

Guest: Yeah.

Justin: And so we recently had an episode where you and I had a conversation about something, and I verbalized to her from a man's perspective, leaving out a lot of the details, but thinking that I got my point across, because I did verbalize whatever it is that you and I spoke about, but from my perspective. Whereas women, they want all the details. Right. And so when I left out certain details, she even posted on a chat that we were on, and she said, Hey, just want to let everybody know that um on this day, Robert won't be able to watch the kids because my daughter has a field trip and I have to be the chaperone for it. And I was like, wait, sweetheart, I already talked to you about this. There's nothing going on. I won't

Overcommunicating Details At Home

Justin: have to be there. Right. And she completely forgot, but because of me leaving out details, she jumped the gun and wanted to over-communicate something because that's the person that she is. Yeah, it's good. I think sometimes, man, it's over-communicating is not a bad thing, it's actually a good thing. And for parents, it's like, hey, look, you're coming back under my covering. You have to remember this is my house. Yeah. And though you are an adult and you live under my house, there are going to be rules in place, and we need to come together and communicate these things so that there's no what-ifs or um mistakes that might happen or arise. Not sure what that was. There you go. Um, so yeah, I think just verbalizing and or communicating those uh effective things will help um alleviate any um unforeseen events that might happen.

Guest: Yeah. When I I think even going as far as writing a plan out, you know, and as something my stupid binder illustration, right? Like we have to update it all the time. But at least initially when they come back in the house, sitting down, having that conversation, and and you know, there's there's some room for flexibility, but there are probably some you know big rocks that you want to put in place first, right? You know, the old illustration, you put the big rocks in the jar, yeah, and then everything else kind of fills in around it. Yeah, setting some of those things in place, you know. Well, they're living with you. Is there a curfew? Right? Do you have an expectation, even as an adult, you know, because it's your house. Do you want them rolling in at midnight

Write The Plan And Set Big Rocks

Guest: outside of work? You know, what does that look like? How long are they going to be able to hang out at home before you expect them to go back and get a job? Right, you know, and and and how are we gonna handle money? Because, you know, they're learning all that again. You know, they're learning to try to do all that in a right manner. You know, what are the expectations for church attendance? Like if you're a Christian family, obviously, and they're coming out of a Christian discipleship program, church attendance is a huge part of, you know, stay staying the course. And so really sitting down and and having that conversation, not just from the expectations of the parent, but even the parent asking the adult child, treating them like an adult, like you said, what are your expectations from us and living here? I I think that's fair because that that ends up now allowing both sides to have some conversation, and then ultimately what's most likely going to happen is there's gonna be a place that everybody meets in the middle and everybody agrees on it.

Justin: I think of that scripture, two cannot walk together unless they agree. Right. And you know, um, a house divided against itself cannot stand, and or a kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. And I think it's really important just to have that level of trust. But also, I think in setting these boundaries, you as a parent cannot continue to look at the individual as their former self, yeah, but need to learn to identify them as the new creation that they are. And so weighing over them the past and the mistakes that they've done, and knowing that they will make mistakes prior to in the future, I think some of the boundaries is as a student, if I'm honest, or even from the the parents' perspective, is saying, hey, look, we're not going to bring up some of these issues that I messed up on before. Right. Because what it does is it eats them away and then it causes them to rebel even more. Yeah. And then fall back to those same issues that they had prior to leaving the home and getting the help that they needed to get. So it's like, hey, look, I'm here to pour into you. I'm not here to control you, but I'm also here to get you out of the nest, to remind you that you can fly, you can soar, you can succeed, and the things that God has instilled in you and has promised you will come to wish uh to fruition

Honor The New Creation, Not The Past

Justin: um as you continue on the course and the path that you have set before you. So that's good. I just think that's important because you know, my mom, you know, for just me speaking personally, my mom always saw the good in me. And regardless of what it was that I went through, she would continue to remind me of who I am in Christ. Yeah. And I think that's why for me, part of my ministry is really getting into speaking life to the identity of the individual in Christ.

Guest: So, so how do you reconcile that part of speaking life into somebody, right? With on not remembering the past, kind of forgetting all of that. But what about some of the places where real restitution has to take place? So, like not just like, you know, disagreements or whatever, but like where there was actual damage, but it better be financially or whatever, right? That has to take place. How does an individual kind of walk that line to address the issues of restitution, but also not be shaming and beating up on the individual for the past mistakes?

Justin: Yeah, that's a really good question. Um I believe the Holy Spirit brought me to the text where Jesus was invited to the Pharisee's house, and the woman that was the prostitute came and uh broke the alabaster jar of oil over his feet and wept and cleansed him, and they rebuked him because they didn't he didn't realize who this woman

Restitution Without Shame

Justin: was. And then he goes on to give the parable and talking about how whoever has been forgiven much loves much. And I think sometimes it's about us recognizing the grace and the mercy that God has had on our lives, despite the fact that we might have not might not have been in addiction ourselves. Because I think sometimes we look at it as like this addiction is a disease and this is the ultimate sin. It's like, no, you have your own battles and your own things that you have to find restitution on. How was God merciful and gracious to you and have you dealt with it? Or and or having the conversation, and like you said, this goes back to communication. How can we resolve some of these things? Because I'm hurt by what you've done, and I haven't had the opportunity to express these things to you when you're at a sober state. And I think having that level-headed conversation and expressing your pain and your hurt and addressing your brother in Christ or sister in Christ, whatever it is, because that's who they are now, because they've received Christ as their Lord and Savior, you take it to Matthew 18, right? That's good, you know. And so I I think for me personally, man, it it's not about ignoring those things that have been unresolved, but it's also understanding how the Father handles those things with wisdom.

Guest: Yeah, yeah, that's good. And I think communication, like really 99% of the time, it's not what we say, it's understanding the nuance of how and when.

Guest: Yeah.

Guest: And I think we've lost a lot of that in culture today, right? Because it's just so easy just to fire off thoughts, right? And context is missing,

Timing Matters: How And When

Guest: tone is missing, you're not looking somebody in the eyes. And so I can't tell you the amount of times I've been misunderstood on a social media post or a text message.

Guest: Yeah.

Guest: And it's not the fault of the people who misunderstood me.

Guest: Yeah.

Guest: It's my fault for not communicating that properly, right? And not communicating that well.

Guest: Yeah.

Guest: And so I think a lot of that is like, okay, there may be restitution. There does need to be reconciliation, healing that needs to happen.

Guest: Yeah.

Guest: It's not the what that is important, but how and when, right? Is day one the most important time to address that when they're not employed yet? You know what I'm saying? They're starting to work on all these other details, all this other stress. Is that the best time to try to reconcile and risk and expect restitution for all these mistakes? Or do we get some of these other issues taken care of, get a little stability? Yeah. And then as there's maturity in the relationship, then we take some time and address those issues.

Justin: Well, you know, it's interesting that you bring this up, right? Because I think about the conversation I just had with one of our new interns, Jason. So shout out to Jason if you're listening to this podcast. I was thinking about what he mentioned to me earlier. He said, stepping into leadership is a little bit fearful. And it's because I don't want to be overwhelmed with a whole bunch of things. And it's almost like this religious law. Like, if you don't follow these extra, you know, these steps and go by the principles that we have set in this home, then you're gonna be um excommunicated and you're gonna be kicked out, you're gonna be fired, etc. etc. But it's like, no, dude, like we're gonna ease you into this thing, right? Right? We don't want to overwhelm you with too much. And I think sometimes, whether you're an addict or you're not an addict, anybody that gets an influx of information all

One Day At A Time, Not Overload

Justin: at once does not know how to handle it. And they think that they have to handle it all at once, but it's like, no, look, we're gonna tackle one thing at a time.

Guest: Yeah, right.

Justin: As they say cliche, like the cliche statement of um one day at a time, like we're gonna do this one day at a time. Yeah, let's let's take 24 hours in a day and let's tackle one thing. But don't put everything on them at once, as you mentioned earlier.

Guest: Yeah, I think that's really good. I think I think really these boundaries, like it is it is just a bunch of communication. And I know sometimes it can be difficult to do, especially if those wheels have not really been greased in a long time. So this communication thing, this working, it's gonna take work. Yeah, it's gonna take time, right? Because I I remember day two that I got home. I asked for the keys to my parents' car. I was gonna go to church. I think I was going to church or the store or something. Right. It was just it was completely innocent. You did nothing wrong with it. But like my mother pulled back a little bit. She's like, Well, where are you going? What do you need my car for? How much money what do you need money for? You know, and I I almost in the moment got offended. Like, I just went through a year-long program. Well, you don't trust me. But I didn't realize as a student, this is maybe more for the for the individual who is coming out of a program. I didn't realize the last face-to-face experience they had of me was of the old me. So part of yes, I want the family to show grace, like you said earlier, and see the new me. But part of my responsibility as the individual coming back into the home was to actually show them the new me.

Guest: Yeah.

Guest: They hadn't seen the new me yet.

Guest: Yeah.

Guest: They heard stories, they heard my testimony when I graduated and all of that, and they knew they thought it was all going well, but it's a whole different experience when you're living up close.

Guest: Right.

Guest: And so I had to pause and say, Hey, I understand. I just wanted to go to church this evening. I think it was

Earning Trust Through Consistency

Guest: church I was going to.

Guest: Right.

Guest: And she's like, Oh, okay, no problem. Here's the keys. Yeah. And but it was just, it just took that moment because the flesh wanted to respond immediately. Well, well, you don't trust me? Yeah. Why do I need to tell you? Right. But on the other part, it was like, no, I owe it to you to tell you at this point.

Justin: You know? And I don't think we touched on this, but we might have slightly, but what are your thoughts on how long they're supposed to stay at the home? Uh, but what's the good time frame to wean them off of the umbilical cord?

Guest: So I I used to think differently about this, like, probably as soon as possible. But I've even like, I even was when I first started parenting, I'm like, my kids are gonna be out at 18. And then like I've started to experience life. You know what I'm saying? Like how expensive things are, yeah, how long it takes to pull things together. And now I'm more of the mindset, like, hey, if you're working and responsible, like I don't want you to have my house till you're 35, you know what I'm saying, as a parent, but like I'm not hey, hang out, you know, spend spend 18 and 22, go to college, save a bunch of money. Like, because I don't want you to have to struggle like I did when I stepped out on my own. And so I think that um, I think that it it really just depends on context. Now, if you've got a kid, if you've got a your your a son that has a wife and two kids and

How Long Should They Stay Home

Guest: everybody's in your home, well, that's a little different, right? Because they need to get out and they need to be married, you know, away from family. But if you've got a single dude living in your house and it's not really an impediment, he's paying rent, he's right doing the responsible thing, then I don't think there's a hurry. And honestly, I think a lot of times that that desire to get out quickly is usually not on the families. The families are usually willing to let them stay as long as they want, and they would want them to stay longer. It's usually the individuals, the former addicts that are like, I've got to get out and prove this on my own quickly.

Guest: Wow.

Guest: And I think sometimes that that's a problem. I've had people that we've offered to stay here, go to work, live in the center, but because they needed to step out and prove it, yeah, like what going out and proving it is worth $3,000 a month in living expenses?

Guest: Yeah.

Guest: Like, do you not realize, like talking about planning for the future, yeah, how much of an opportunity you have to hang out here for six months and just save money, which which becomes a relapse prevention tool in the future.

Guest: There you go.

Guest: Because you're not sitting down stressing over your light bill getting cut off. That's so good. And let me just go get high.

Guest: Yeah.

Justin: So I think So then how do we learn to decipher boundaries from rules, right? Because what I hear you saying is when there's too many rules in place, it causes me to want to run from the covering that I have and the the community that I have. Yeah. But when we have boundaries, it's like, no, these aren't rules. Right. These are protecting you from the potential sin that you were once in slave to. Yeah. Right. It's like the Garden of

Boundaries Versus Rules

Justin: Eden. You know, like they had he had to put boundaries in place. Right. You know, but I I just if you could speak to that a little bit, man, because I think that's an issue for me, even at times. It's like there's boundaries, but I'm like, oh man, like this is it's almost like this rule book or this law that's been put in place, and I can't do this. It's like, no, it's not that you can't do this.

Guest: That's just the wrestling with the sin nature that we all deal with. I don't think there's ever going to be a time because I we have so we we foster care, we do foster care in our home, right? Right. And kids all always resist boundaries when you put them in place at first, right? But I've also seen the results of kids where they come into our home and they've not had any boundaries.

Guest: Wow.

Guest: Okay. And the pain and the heartache and everything that causes from them being in a and not being in a safe environment. And so, of course, when we try to instill those boundaries in a kid coming into our home for the first time, there is pushback, there's a fight. But then as those boundaries remain consistent, right, and as the parent, we continue to push those into place, you start to see the kid like look forward

Trusting Adults, Not Babying Them

Guest: to those boundaries. Wow. And so there's always going to be that resistance in us. Right. You know, and it's I think when you're dealing with adults and adult children, I think there is a lot of communication that has to happen.

Guest: Right.

Guest: You know, and I you made a really solid point early on. You gotta see your kid as an adult.

Guest: You have to.

Guest: You can't kick love them, you can't baby them, right? You're not, you don't have a full-grown baby boy, you have a man in your home.

Justin: And I think for the parents that are listening to this and have an opportunity to just hear what I have to say, we as adults don't want to be seen as little kids anymore, right? Right. And I think that gives us a level of confidence that we can go out and soar and do what it is that we're called to do. Because when mom's always squeezing your cheek and packing your lunch and making sure that you have all the things that you need before you step out of the door, it's kind of a little embarrassing. But it's also a good thing, right? I love that aspect of my mother, you know, that that nurturing aspect of the mother. But at the same time, it's like there's a point in time where you have to allow them to be an adult. Yeah, and it's almost instilling in them the ability to say, you know what, I trust you again. Yep. Yeah, because that's what they want to hear. Yeah. Do you trust me again, mom? Do you trust me again, dad? And I think that's hard. It's because, like you mentioned earlier with your mom and dad, it's like, man, they hit you with this, you almost got the bait of offense. But you said, wait, hold on, I gotta earn this back. Yeah, and so the boundaries are in place for me to earn their trust back so that I can be a son again, right? You know, or a daughter again for that matter. Yeah. Well, we talk about the prodigal, right?

Guest: But like once he came home, dude, they threw a party. And they threw a party, but like I imagine after he was established in the house, he had to work. Like he he the father probably didn't just let him hang out, you know, and and and

Enforcing Boundaries And Hard Lines

Guest: and play Xbox all day or whatever. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm pretty sure he went to work on the farm. Yeah, he was milking something. Yeah, absolutely. He was dealing with the nipples, and and so that's that part. Like, yes, we establish them in the house, we make them feel loved and welcomed, but being a son comes with responsibility.

unknown: Right.

Guest: You you can't separate the two. Wow, right? So, so I'm I'm your son, I'm part of it, but there is a responsibility in being a son as well. So, I mean, I think, yeah, it just to go back to how we started this whole thing off, lots and lots of communication. Yeah, like lots of it.

Justin: It's so cool because you know, in the black culture, my grandmother, bless her heart, love her, uh, rest in peace. But she would always say, Robert, when you're under my home and you're under my covering, you must understand that you're representing this home. Yeah, and so she set boundaries and parameters in place before we even left the home because she wanted us to be great representators of the Grant family, right? Or the family that, you know, she obviously wasn't a Grant, but still of her family, right? Of her bloodline. And so it's the same way with the kingdom. Think about the boundaries that God has in place for us, regardless of you coming back home to your mother, your father, what boundaries does the text have for us so that we can live a godly and prosperous life? Yeah, they're not there to harm us or to tell us that we can't do these things because you know what? You can do them. But the more you begin to have a relationship with the father, the less you desire to do those things. Yeah. And it just becomes a natural way in which

Protecting The Home And Your Heart

Justin: we live and breathe and have our being and do things in life. It it just becomes second nature, if you will. It's no longer a boundary. It's like, you know what, I'm not going to cross that line because I know that the damage that it causes for my mother and my father. Yeah.

Guest: I mean, I think too, one thing I I will I do want to say as you were just talking about that, is that there we don't need to fall victim to like having toxic empathy, right? Yeah. Like there's there's the other side of like, yes, we're setting some expectations, we're setting some boundaries, but if those boundaries are broken, like that's another part, like having that part of the conversation ahead of time. Right. Like, I'm willing to walk with you. Because like, yes, God will go to the ends of the earth, grace forever. But like, if you rob me and go buy drugs, you probably lose your privilege to live here.

unknown: Yeah.

Guest: Like, and so I think that that's one of the things that a lot of the new secular models of rehab, and we're handing needles out on streets, you know what I'm saying? We're calling it harm reduction. And so, like, the whole, the whole um my parents threw me out, and I deserved it.

unknown: Right.

Guest: You know what I'm saying? And we were so and I get it, I get why people are terrified because fentanyl has just killed people. Well, at least if they're here, I can keep them from dying.

Guest: Right.

Guest: And and I think, yes, you may be able to keep them from dying in the short term, but they're spiritually dead already. And so I think that there's gotta be that line, like like a boundary does no good, right, if it's not enforced. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think that's just one thing that it has to be a part of the conversation, right?

Recap: Communicate, Commit, Rebuild

Justin: Yeah. I mean, Danielle and I, we set a boundary prior to us getting married, that if I or she ever uses drugs, we have to go through a year-long program.

Guest: Yeah.

Justin: Right. And that's a hard like she's not going to like let me off the hook because my kids love me and we have a great relationship, or because I serve her at the house. She's like, no, in order for you to step foot back into this house, you need to complete a year-long program because you have some things that you need to deal with. Yeah. And I'm not going to bring that into the presence of our kids so that they can be harmed because of your mistakes. And so these are the things that you're going to do is you're basically as a parent saying, you know what? I'm not going to allow you to hurt me again. Yeah. So you're protecting yourself from setting these boundaries. You're not just protecting them. Yeah. And so that's so important for us because what we end up doing is just reopening and reopening a wound that needs to be healed. And you can't get the healing because your son or daughter gets delivered from something. You get the healing by spending time with the father yourself. Because he's the only one that can heal you. It's not you no longer trying to deliver your child from the mess that they've gotten themselves into, you know. And so those are proper boundaries. It's like, look, I'm not going to allow you to ruin my relationship with the father. Yeah. Right. And nor am I going to allow you to ruin the relationship with the father. And so those are healthy boundaries, I think, that can be in place. Yeah. So what are some closing thoughts, man, that you believe besides communication, like what you know, I guess that's we said some pretty practical things. Yeah.

Guest: Yeah, I think I think kind of recap what we talked about. Number one, communication. Yeah. Like set a plan from the beginning, write it down. But then also like for the parents, like don't fall victim to toxic empathy, right? Have the have the wherewithal and and the um oh just have the wherewithal to be able to stick to your guns. Like if you guys have come to an agreement as two adults, right? And so like have that discussion. But then on the other side, for the addict, right? For the former addict, I don't know the addict anymore, but like you junkie, you you you've got to rebuild trust. Yeah. And um not in all circumstances, because there are some circumstances where like the parent isn't always completely innocent of like relational issues, right? Like, so I don't want to assume that. But like most of the time, the onus is usually on the former addict to repair stuff, right? Like if you grew up in a toxic family and abuse and all that, like, yes, I get that there are outliers. There are cases where it's not always just on the former addict, but like if it is, then they need to deal with that. Like, they're gonna be aware of that. Trust is gonna take time to rebuild. Right. But communication, like that is most people just don't do it.

Justin: It's it's uncomfortable. It is. We can communicate through a screen and through our phones, but the second you're in front of that person, you like shut up, you're a brick wall. Yeah, like don't be fearful of having the tough conversation.

Guest: Well, I hate confrontation too.

Justin: Like, I I can't stand it. But I think the best place to have that communication to in conclusion is around some food.

Guest: Yep.

Justin: Break bread, right? Or Starbucks. Or Starbucks.

Guest: Get you a little bit of espresso, and then everybody's talking faster, right? It's like everybody's happy.

Justin: So I'm delighted.

Guest: Hey, thank you guys for taking the time to sit down. I hope this was helpful. And again, if you there's any topic that we didn't cover, maybe you have some disagreement with what we said, drop it in the comments. I'll tell you how you were wrong. But no, I'm just kidding. No, if you had some disagreement on what we said or you had some feedback, please leave that in the comments. We appreciate you guys um jumping in here and watching. God bless. Peace.