You Can Win at Life and Still Feel Lost: Aaron Gordon

But I was also caught up in the environment of DC being at the time that I was growing up the murder capital of the world. At one point growing up, my guest today was told that a teenager in his neighborhood had lower odds of surviving than a soldier in a war zone. And I remember the newscaster saying that a soldier in that war [music] had a better chance of surviving that war than a teenage black male did of seeing age 18 in Washington DC. Whether I wanted to or not, I was surrounded by that mindset is can any good thing come out of Washington DC, come out of my neighborhood. neighborhood. neighborhood. What he learned early and what many of us don't learn until after addiction, failure, and burnout is this. I'd had nobody [music] to identify with. Here's my conversation with Aaron Gordon. When I think about the city and folks that I know that come from the city, the streets offer one identity. So before success, right, before your journey through West Point and your career and author and all of the stuff that God's used you to do, what did you believe about yourself as a young child in regards to identity? It's interesting you you start off with that question because I remember so first of all, I was very fortunate raised in a two parent household. Wasn't the norm growing up in inner city DC. and my parents, they drove me to excel. And I often say this for as much as my testimony I, I'd love to say, to have this rags to riches. My parents really did it was a God-given thing. I was just driven to want to do well and I didn't have to fight for that or anything. we have these transformative events that that shape how we're going to be. And that was a part of my early identity was wanting to prove so badly that something good could come out of DC. Yeah. Wow. So you so I hear your story and you talk about you're talking about almost like these protection mechanisms that were in place for you that were shaping you. And so what did you looking back at that other than your parents like and their role in your life like what was protecting you like before you had language right you've got language for it now for discipline faith and purpose and all of that but take us a little deeper into that man what really put that protection around you. Yeah, I think I little did I realize at that time I was God had called me at a young age because I was my identity was formed in not the best of circumstances in that. So I already had that environment that I was in and then growing up as a young black man in DC. So my friends thought I and I had really good grades. So, I was too quote unquote white for my black friends. And then for my white friends, they were "You're still black." [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] And then to throw that in, I was one of the best athletes at the school. So, I had nobody to identify with. And so I remember we had this football game, pickup football games, thing of the past nowadays. We had pickup football game. And they would never Yeah. on the concrete, [laughter] by the way. And so, I'll never forget I was the last one chosen. And mind you, I was one of the best athletes there in gym class, everything. And so, first two times I touched the ball, I scored a touchdown. After the second touchdown, they said to me, they got everybody together. I was "What's going on?" They said, "We want to start over. We don't want his touchdowns because he got them." Yeah. So, you're talking really about expectations of other people and how obviously everybody I heard somebody say one time that like it's important for us to have a vision for our lives because if we don't, everybody else does. M and you've got the low expectations of the community around you. You're excelling above that and so what what shaped you there in regards to like not well I'll just be who they say I am because I think that's the challenge right well everybody thinks I'm going to become this anyways and so it almost becomes prophetic in a sense. Yeah. And that's a pretty significant decision to say in that moment, I'm not going to fall victim to their low expectations. Yeah. But there's a flip side to that I think that was unhealthy for me in that So, so you're right. It was and but what drove me is then it became pride. pride. pride. Then it became I must be the best at all cost. cost. cost. Sure. Sure. Sure. I will outwork you. You will not be smarter than me. you would do I would do any and everything and in within the rules to win but I was it was unhealthy for me. Yeah. So by the time I accepted the invitation to go to West Point I had already thought I was the best thing [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] in the world. I really did until God had to tremendously humble me at West Point. Yeah. So you write in the book in the on in the intro you say and I want to get this quote right but you say may your identities never be shaped by shifting societal norms or low expectations and so why is that because you share both sides of low expectations right the part of either being dragged down by it or responding negatively and being driven by pride and so why are low expectations so dangerous for people growing up yeah because I think that so let me start here I have since learned and believe that until who your creator is, until you have the relationship that you should with Christ, we're really wandering trying to figure out who we are. am I here just to achieve accolades? Am I here just to win as much as I could? And I'll share this because I think it's related to what you were what your question was is that I remember so here I was telling you how good I was to get into West Point. You have to be really good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then my first semester at West Point. So remember I told you I was very I had excellent grades, best a one of the best athletes there. First semester I got a 1.8 1.8 1.8 and then I almost flunked out because I couldn't swim. Now forget every negative stereotype we had. It was true. I could not swim. I'm not going to say it. [laughter] I'm not You're not baiting me. No. No. No. But literally I had 3% body fat at the time and we had what we called a rock class in swimming which isn't good. I was below the rocks. And so here I am facing for the first time in my life where I wasn't good at the things that I had built my identity on that the things that I thought no one could take away from me cuz the expectations my parents had never they didn't go to college it was the first one in the history of my family of a colola so there were no higher expectations because people didn't know what that looked like. Wow. So, so I never forget one day I get this letter telling me I'm on academic probation and after the class I'm coming out. black people get ashy when they hit the chlorine and everything. [laughter] So, I'm sitting there looking like a turtle and I'm mad and I punched every lock I could in the locker room. I was there on a remedial class by myself and I eventually sunk in a corner and I just yelled as loud as I could, why have you left me? And as clear as I'm talking to you, one of the clearest times I heard God say, "You thought all of your accomplishments and all of the things that I allowed you to do." do." do." Wow. Wow. Wow. Were because of your skills, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He said, "And now you don't have them anymore without me." He said, "And now I can use you." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it let me know that there's always a stripping away process. it's like when you clean a floor or you mop a floor, you have to strip it sometimes, right? or where you reacquer a chair or something like that. And I believe spiritually that's what God had to do to me. And that began the process of me figuring out who I am because I had hit my rock bottom because I no longer knew what I was good at. I no longer look knew what I was here for because what I had forged my identity on had been stripped down. Yeah. So a lot of men man like resist like structure, right? We think that freedom is really just a byproduct of being able to do what we want when we want. No discipline, no structure, right? And you end up in West Point at a place that is the exact opposite of freedom, right? [laughter] It is structure and discipline. So, how did that beyond the moment where God stripped your pride down? Then, how did he use that structure and that discipline to rebuild you in a way that freedom really couldn't? [clears throat] So, the good thing about growing up in my household is that we had structure. My dad was an ex special forces. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, he didn't play around. So, the one thing I had was structure. So, the structure was good. I had no problem with the structure at West Point or the discipline whatsoever. It was actually good. And it I didn't see it till years later how God used that structure to reconstruct me. You have a quote in the book that says this. says, "Time and experience are also important so you can see how you work best according to my master design." And so you're in this season, right? God's breaking you down. Like you're you're in the structure. You're being formed there on and waiting for what God's going to do next? what is life going to look like after West Point? What is my future like? Again, you made the quote earlier, can anything good come out of Nazareth, right? And why do you think people struggle with that waiting so much? And I think it goes back to the fact we don't know God. Many of us have equated God, whether we admit it or not, to a genie where we rub him, he comes out the bottle, we guarant [laughter] say this is what I need. This is what I want. And power happens like that. When God is a God of process. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the Bible speaks of that Jesus grew in maturity. He grew in stature. He grew in favor which speaks of a process. So nobody escapes the process, right? It's just his way. It's just no one escapes the process. And it's hard because we are we as men and women in today's society have such an expectation that everything is available now. Just give it to me. Just grant me my three wishes. Why can't I be better right now? Why can't you just take it away? But it's in the process that you're made and it's in the process that humbles you enough to relate to other people. Yeah. One of my favorite verses is Ephesians 1 11 and 12. And the message translation of it just speaks to me and it's been my life verse since like and it goes that it's in Christ we find out who we are and what we're living for. Yes. Long before we heard of Christ and got our hopes up, he had his eyes on us. He had designs for glorious living. Yes. Yes. Yes. And what I've learned is that this process of life is really discovering the original design versus the expectation of society or the stuff that life throws on us. It's stripping, like you said, everything off and getting back to that original design that God had all along all and sometimes it doesn't feel that way, right? Especially in the waiting when we're being humbled and we're trying to figure out the new career and we're trying to figure out what the next journey is and so Erin, you've you've done some stuff, right, since West Point. You've got a great career. You do leadership consulting. You're a phenomenal speaker, man. I love listening to you preach on you sing and all that, man. And so let me just ask the question, why a children's book? Like [laughter] like what I'm saying? Like you're doing all the leadership stuff and I do and so why a children's book? So I will say this is that I had no intentions of ever writing a book period. None. And I remember I was talking to a fellow classmate of mine from West Point and he was telling me about this conference he was going to and he was "Man, people just don't know what they're here for." And he said, "You always have a story about everything. Anybody know?" I have a lot of story. You've [laughter] got some great illustrations. illustrations. illustrations. Well, I appreciate. So he comes to me and he says, "What do you think about this?" And I told him the story that I shared, that I eventually wound up writing the book on. on. on. And he stood there in silence. I was "Hello?" He said, "Aaron, that's the simplest explanation I've ever heard for identity in my life." Wow. He said, "Where'd you get that from?" I said, "Man, that's something God gave me years ago to tell my kids to help them understand their uniqueness and to help them understand the process that God uses to help you discover who you are in him." And his next words was, "You need to write that as a children's book." Yeah. So, I'm "Ah, come on, man. I'm never writing a children's book." And it wouldn't. So, we had our conversation. I got off that phone call fully resolved. I'm not writing a children's book. Last thing in the world. So, I'll never forget three years ago. three years ago at December 30th, God says, "Go look up some book publish book p publishers." I'm "For what?" He's "You're going to write a book." I'm "Come on, man. [laughter] This how this is how God and I talk." So, so he says, "No, I really want you to go reach out to one." So, I call one. So, I just called and I said, "Look," I said, "I'm just curious. How much would it cost to publish a book?" He said, "$20,000." I said, "Oh, no. This is a hobby." I said, "This is what the Lord," right? I said, "That's confirmation that I'm not supposed to." And then he says, "Well, wait a minute. Tell me about your book." So then I told him, and after like 10 minutes, he was "what?" He's "It's at the end of the year, and we're trying to get as much sales as we can, and I believe in what you're trying to do." He said, "What if I give you a complete package for everything marketing for $3,000?" Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I use the famous man quote whenever, cuz we be "I need to check with my wife whenever you don't really want to do it." [laughter] I be "Oo, that's a pretty big expense. I got to check on my wife." Check with her when I bought the grill. Right. [laughter] There you go. We are That's another conversation. So, I'm sitting there and God and I'm thinking when he did the 3,000, I'm "God, that's I don't have an God said, why are you worried about the money?" God said, "That's my money to begin with." I said, "Oh." [laughter] So, I began the process of writing the book. I really had. And through a slew of spiritual warfare and all resistance and getting the book out, it finally was published about two or three weeks ago. That's incredible. So, so yeah, it was an unveiling to me the and this is what by the process is that I never knew that was in me. I never knew that's what but God did. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so he allowed the process to inform me. So in the journey in the process sometimes we going back to the book and the story that you tell sometimes we can feel like because things aren't panning out the way we want and things aren't working how we thought they should. We can almost feel like we're broken. Something's wrong with us. and in the book, The Fork says, "I think I'm broken." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, why would you say that so many people, kids and adults alike, jump to that conclusion so quickly, right? When things don't go or things aren't happening how they think they should. Yeah. Why do we jump to that conclusion like I am, something must be wrong with me. I'm broken. I think it's because a we have never so the plight of all men whenever we get a new tool or something do you ever read the directions really? Never. [laughter] So I think the first part is we never go to the instruction manual. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when you miss the instruction manual, you make assumptions. And when you make assumptions, you figure your assumptions are right. So all my life, I've been building this identity that I think who I am, whether it was my accomplishments is whether who I've all you name it. And I think because of that, it's so hard for us to believe that when we finally get to a point that something doesn't work the way we thought it was in this identity that we've created, our only recourse is to think we're broken. Yeah, that's really good. Because I couldn't possibly be wrong. Can you imagine how devastating that is? And that's why I said the book, even though I wrote it as a children's book, is just as much for adults. Imagine how devastating it was for me, even at West Point, to learn that my identity wasn't in how good I was. What do you mean? I've been proven my whole life in the 17, 18 years on earth of how good I was. And you mean that's not it? I am what I do and I am what I do relative to you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And how we end up in that spot, right? That I'm not who I am. I'm not who God created me to be. I am what I do. And this journey of identity is something that I'm learning even now. I just turned 40. I'm getting ancient, and like you're getting [laughter] ancient. But every career change Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. hits the questions of identity. What did I do wrong in the last season? Why didn't I rise to the top in that particular career, that particular moment, and trying to like figure that out? What's broken inside of me? And I have a bad habit of doing that. I like to I Ashley even asked me the other day. She's "Why do you keep score so much?" Well, what else is there? there? there? Somehow Satan realized that in man from the very beginning. Yeah. And I was literally just thinking of this yesterday is that when he began to speak to Eve, he didn't come to her as a monster. He didn't come to her with all these he questioned. He said, but did he really say that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. cuz the reason he doesn't want you because you could be like him. So again, what did he attack is her identity of who she thought she was. And it wasn't enough. Yeah. So then I thought it was okay. Then you fast forward with Jesus. What did he do with Jesus? I it's been written you could do this, turn these stones to bread, you could do it. And he wanted him to do it because he wanted Jesus to feel like you had to prove himself instead of knowing already that he was the son of God. Yeah, that's right. And the attack hasn't changed. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just so with Eve, it was a fruit. With Jesus, it was in the desert with those different things. And with us, it's just the different things of our life disguised. Yeah. And this Satan tries to make, but is it really that? Are you really enough? Are you this or that? And because we've built our identity on puzzle pieces, little small puzzle pieces, one piece being out of whack can throw everything off. off. off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, that's why it's so important to really spend time with your creator, with God, and say, "God, who am I?" Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What are the things that are inherent in me? That's why the song at the back of the book was so impactful to me. It says, is that everything the way that you were wired, it fascinates me that I God knew me before I was even born, which means he had an intention, which mean he designed me specifically for something that only I was uniquely qualified. It's like taken, right? I have a unique set of skills. [laughter] Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, I will find you. Yeah, I feel that with four daughters, but Oh, yeah. It's only just begun, my friend. Why is comparison such a powerful thief when it comes to our God-given purpose? Yeah, I think it's be I so I speak for me and I think because inherently we need we have this desire to want to gauge progress. We want to see, we want to keep score, right? As you said, it's just not enough to participate. We want to keep score. And I think sometimes that it's in the score that we subconsciously determine our value. how many I'm doing I'm in the same field as this let me see how many they got and so instead of you embracing your original design subconsciously we begin to say okay I need to tweak it to be like this person I need to become like more and more like that and when you do that I think we're becoming less and less of what God intended for us to be that's really good and I think that I've seen that in myself so many times because I wanted to be like somebody else and God said what if but what if no one else is ever like you wow and it took God and it takes God and he's continually rebuilding and stripping me down and rebuilding me again. But each one is a little higher foundation. I'll put it that way when you take the lessons learned. But I think the reason we do that is because we're not content is a because we don't know what success looks like right in God. And B without not without having the faith to trust that God ultimately has the best version of success for us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We go to the next best thing which is what we can see. So we all have a desire for affirmation though, right? So how how would you looking at that how do we get a healthy view of affirmation because like I think we can the old statement if I don't live for their applause I won't die by their criticism right but affirmation is something we all need and we all desire so how do we get that healthy view of hey it's okay to receive applause or affirmation from other people but not slip into the comparison trap when it's Does the question make sense? sense? sense? Oh, no. It makes perfect sense. And I so I had to reconcile this for myself is that yes, I love who doesn't love to hear accolades and affirmation, I think it's a better word, is affirmation. what the hey, you're making an impact. You're making a difference. But I think where it begins to slide is that if our affirmation doesn't we weren't meant to be host of glory, glory, glory, right? right? right? Never were. And the only person that can handle that glory is God. Yeah. Wow. So, as long as I remember that, hey, no, I appreciate it. Thank you so much. But all the glory belongs to God. And it was, it goes back to that central message that God told me when I was in that locker room. You thought it was you the whole time. But now I can use you because you see it wasn't. wasn't. wasn't. It was me. And as long so, I find myself in when I receive affirmation for, the various things that I've done and I'm appreciative of it. And I know that's our natural way of showing that aff giving that affirmation and appreciation, but ultimately point people back to Christ. We used to say in FCA, we just want to make Jesus famous. Yeah. And I think as long as I do that, I don't have to carry the burden and the weight of that glory because only he can. That's who he is. That's his character. That's what he's composed of is his glory. That's what separates him so much from us is his holiness. And we were never meant to do that. You fork and knife went through this process, right? They realized their actual purpose. They got they saw spoon eating cereal all this and then they realized what their purpose actually was. And the book says they felt a sense of security and purpose they never had before. So why does peace in our lives come after alignment and not achievement? Wow. It's a great question. I think part of the reason is because achievement is so fleeting is that I never forget the first time I was involved in organized sport and we won a championship and we threw the guy out. It was in softball and I was like afterwards which I was like that's it. [laughter] Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, that's it. That's this is the best it gets right here. So that's achievement. But when you achieve purpose is it's deep and it's fulfilling. It's like now I know why. Now the process makes sense that bought me here. is I have a greater appreciation for the process of my purpose that I could not have gained without the process. So I think the thing that I try to remember is that we all like fork in the story we just need to God is just trying to lead us to our steak dinner. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's all. I love how you steak too. Thank you. I do. [laughter] But we're so content with eating cereal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not realizing that it doesn't work. And then you have this ab abomination called a spork which is Who likes a spork? Why? What is that? [laughter] It doesn't do either. Well, right. That's good. So, but I think each I think many of us now that I say that we all go through a spork season where we try to become many things to instead of focusing in on God, what do you I had I was vacuuming. I wanted to I have this thing. I have a confession as a married man. I'm almost 28 years 29. I love to vacuum. Always have. My wife's never vacuumed. I love it. It's peaceful to me. Don't know why. I like vacuuming. vacuuming. vacuuming. Are you even a man? Let's go. I d my car and it's fleeting. [laughter] But I never forget one day I was trying to do something and I used the the vacuum to prop open the door. I was picking up some off the floor and God told me, he said, "Aaron, that's a pretty expensive doors stop you got there." I said, "Well, I'm just putting it there for a minute." He said, "Yeah, but he said, "What if you left it there?" He said, "Would that vacuum cleaner ever know its purpose?" I said, "Well, no." He said, "Well, when does the vacuum cleaner really become a vacuum cleaner?" And here's the lesson. I said, "When I plug it in and use it," he said, "Aaron, that's 100% right." He said, "I'm the vine. You're the branch." Wow. Apart from me, you can do nothing. So, he said, "Aaron, if you don't plug into me, you're just a doors stop." stop." stop." Wow. Wow. Wow. And you'll be happy being a doors stop, never knowing you were meant to be a vacuum cleaner. That's good. This is the thing I love about electricity is that it brings to life the purpose that was always intended. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't expect the oscillating fan to cook my bacon. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But once it's plugged in to the source, it naturally flows into what it was meant to do. And I think that the example is the same. It follows with us is that when fork for the first time went into that steak, it's "Oh, wait a minute. [laughter] This is Yeah, this feels right." Right. And so then life becomes a process that and that's why at the end of the book I have the ongoing conversation with fork and Mr. Cutler. A cutler is somebody that creates for and says what else can I do? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's the spirit and mentality what Jesus tells except you become as little children. What is the children known for? Curiosity. Yeah. So I try to approach it the same way. God what else do you have for me to do? I didn't see myself becoming a children's book writer. What do you mean? What else you want to do? He's "Ah, your story is just it's just unfolding." unfolding." unfolding." Yeah, that's good. So, in the book, Mr. Cutler says this. He says, "I created you. I designed you to be a solution for a problem that would eventually come." And so, we talk about this process of developing purpose. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, why would you say it's so hard for people to trust the creator when purpose isn't clear yet? I think the first reason is because I think it takes time. It goes back to what we were saying about process. I remember I was speaking one time and I remember I was speaking about time and the Bible verse I don't remember but it says process of time. It didn't say in the process of time. It said in process of time and I thought that wording was fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because when you think of time to an eternal God he's like that's your construct. That means nothing to me. Wow. Wow. Wow. But just the fact that it says process of time which means that he uses time to develop his process. And so for me, it took 54 years for me to realize that this was in me the whole time. So what does God use along the way? He reminds me of all the steps within the purpose to become the building blocks and the ingredients for my story now. Yeah, that's really So now it's not hard. It's just telling your testimony of and now you see with a clarity that you haven't seen before. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Time for us is not measured the same way with God. And the God, I love the verse that said God is able to restore the years that the canker worm, the Palmer worm, and whatever other worm. Tell you this, when I turned 40, I literally told God, I said, I guess I've lived out half of my supposed life now. And I [snorts] said, things I thought I'd do, I said, I guess I'll never do them. And I was at peace with that. that. that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I really was. I was all right, I've lived a good life. I'm at peace with it. And God told me after I turned 50, he said, "You've only just begun." Now in my mind I can't conceive that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But what is time to God? God is able to accelerate. accelerate. accelerate. God is able to give us favor. So to that person is struggling with years that they feel that they have quote unquote wasted. God uses everything. everything. everything. That's right. God uses all the ups and downs to build your testimony to shape and mold your character and your perspective to even if it's that one person whose life has changed because it was all worth it. Yeah, that's good. I tell the story all the time. It's pretty well this amazed me to know people that don't hear it, but his little kid that's found a cocoon with his grandfather. Yeah. And he sees the He's He's at the last end with a caterpillar's transforming into a butterfly. And he sees the struggle and he's "Grandpa, it can't get out." Grandpa doesn't say anything. He's just watching. And so after a while, the little boy says, "I need to help it out." So he opens the cocoon. And when he does, the butterfly in its weakened state just flops out. And it wasn't soon afterwards that it died. And the little boy goes to his grandfather and says, "Why did it die? I was just trying to help it so it wouldn't have to struggle." struggle." struggle." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the grandfather looks at him. He says, "Son," he said, "It was in the struggle that the blood from its body would go out to his wings to strengthen it." it." it." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that it could fly. So that it be could become everything it was meant to be. What is the lesson in that? that God allows the struggle so that it transforms us and allows us to become everything we were meant to be. And without that struggle, we will eventually be premature. And anything born premature cannot exist in the state that it's supposed to. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so I liken that we're all in these spiritual cocoons. We are. And so God allows the struggle not because he's a satist, not because he's unaware, not because he's unloving, but because allowing me to go through that struggle is actually the most loving thing of all. all. all. Yeah, that's really because he sees and knows what I'm going to become and the impact that I will be able to have if I just endure. Yeah, that's really good. Yeah. And we don't feel that in the moment, right? No. [laughter] It's God, you've abandoned me, ? It's what it feels like. This is exactly what I said. [laughter] Why have you left? We go through this process. So your book ends with this idea, Aaron, separate and mission but equal. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Different but no less valuable. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so how does this truth change the way a man would rebuild his life, his faith, or his family? Yeah. I think one of the ways that it can is I think it allows you to be content that I've served my purpose. Yeah. See, I think part of fork's dilemma is that it value it saw success through the eyes of spoon when it was never a spoon. And success for a fork is always going to be different for success for a spoon and vice versa. So I think the part of that is aligning yourself with the purposes of God for your life, which he always gives us context clues because you have an affinity for certain things. There are certain things that just burn you up that like you see a problem. You see a solution where other people see a problem, right? You're just predispositioned that way. I never knew I'd fall into leadership or something, but when I look back, I saw how I always wanted to champion the underdog. underdog. underdog. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I saw how even when I didn't want, people said, "We want you to be in charge." charge." charge." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I just did it because I thought somebody needed to do it. And I think what I didn't realize all the time was God was just having these spiritual checkpoints be "Okay, good. He's reached that part." Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, he's reached that part. So I think for someone who is trying to avoid the comparison trap and is trying to see what success looks like it becomes content you I think the first thing is no is coming at peace with who God made you seek his face seek him and the Bible says in all your ways acknowledge him and he'll do what he'll direct your paths and then I'd say step back and watch your life and see where you start having successes at see the things you do well see what you have an affinity for. And I think when you do that and you do those things well, you're God would be deny this would be cruel is for God to deny you the contentment and the peace of saying, "Wow, that felt great doing that." So I think that by not comparison, by not comparing, I don't ascribe to be TD Jake. I just want to be the best error. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And because I because here's the beauty of it is I will reach people that he never will. That's right. And the Bible says that heaven rejoices. That's right. When one sinner turns. So he has people that are attached to his name. I have people that are attached to my name. And I think that's the powerful thing about living your purpose in Christ is because when you do that well, there are souls on the other side of your yes. There are souls on the other side of your obedience. So when you do that and you fall where God has you to be, you can't help but have the impact that he wants you to have. So Erin, just as we wrap up, man, just, where can people find you? How can they get a copy of the book? As we went through the conversation, we talked about different pieces of it. So yeah, man, just maybe give people some places to find you. And I really appreciate the conversation, by the way. No, it's it's my pleasure. So so I'm I'm again, my name is Aaron on a lot of times I go Aaron P. Gordon just because there are other Aaron Gordons is a pretty generic name. [laughter] [laughter] [laughter] So, so I said unique. Yes. Yes, I am unique. My wife will attest to that. So, so yeah, I can be found on Facebook. If you go to Amazon and just type in Aaron P. Gordon, you'll see my book come up. Or the name of the book is called Cutler's Wonderful Creations subtopic, a children's book about finding your god-given identity. And even though I say children's book, like I said, it's very much for adults also because and I look at how powerful that can be if a parent and the kid work on their identity journey together. together. together. Yeah. and I'll be dropping the links and stuff down in the description here on YouTube. So you guys check Aaron out, check the book out. You can get that I think the Amazon link. I'll drop that down below as well. But man, I really appreciate you taking the time to sit down and yeah, just chat. I know we've been wanting to do this for a while. So, it's it's exciting to be able to do it and to do it at such a fun time. time. time. Yeah. Using you to release this book and man, thank you again so much. My absolute pleasure. And for those watching, please if something from this episode resonated with you, you had a question, a comment, u you can drop that down in the comment. Please like the video, subscribe to it so we can continue to put this message of hope out for men and women that are just trying to rebuild their life after addiction. Absolutely. Thank you so much for watching and we'll see you in the next one.