Finding Forgiveness: Making Amends in Addiction

Preparation for Live Stream

Yeah, I'm we're not live officially yet. I'm just getting things. Okay cool, cool. Yeah, you I was about to say But yeah, man anyways, all is good you all as well Nice man Let me know when we're actually live Yeah, I just wanted to make sure I'm doing it a little different This time like control and when it actually starts No, how do you do that? I got it set up so I can actually hit the live button on Facebook when we're ready Go away face All right, it should be live on Facebook, but we won't start talking to the countdown goes off Soon to sit in silence, but I hear our voice. I don't know if they can hear us or not then maybe I'll be here You You Mute I can hear you now. I think we're good now sweet Good Let's go take a few minutes up. I'm gonna get this whole system down eventually man Yeah, baby steps, baby, baby, maybe one of the time, right?

Excited to Discuss Forgiveness

Well, according to Facebook we are we are live and so on Yeah, excited to jump on here and talk Rob this week about forgiveness and all kinds of good stuff man. I'm on I'm stoked. I'm excited for Really getting a little bit more clarity on our conversations each week You know so that we can kind of have some directions promote them a little bit of demands, but on man, it's been fun and how's your week been? You've my week's been really good, man. Business has been really really well We found a little area And pocket of untouched property, so it's been nice to be up there and To I'm really be able to minister to a guy that I'm working with man. He's in the world and He's like you know really trying to get God into his life and He opened up about why he hasn't you know have this relationship with God before and so it's just cool to see God transform him before my eyes um and Yeah, it's just it's always nice to see that man I think that's like the most rewarding thing ever is to see somebody how they once were And then to see the development and go to baby steps from stages like with with their speech their actions everything No, so yeah, it's not gonna be a part of that. Yeah, how about you man?

Fighting with My Yard

I'm good man. I've been fighting with my yard this week, so I am on trying to actually cap pitchers So I've been trying to like get my yard all pretty So for the last several years. This is where we started and And on I'm fighting this losing battle like planning grass where the kids do the swings and so You know, it may be unnecessary, but you know, whatever what you need to do. There's you need to put gravel get some wood And then put like a great sand in that area or a little rocks Do something right? I kept them off the swings for like two weeks. I felt like a horrible parent And then they go over there and start playing and like like within minutes, you know, the grass is already starting to get crushed again You know, so I guess I guess I'll have an exercise and forgiveness It's funny. It's funny. You bring that up right because like I had a mole story when we had our first home in Florida We had little moles grandma's everywhere, and so they would like basically just tear up the grass And so there was one point in time in my life where I had like these little traps And then they all used to like look at me crazy through the window and like I caught one I was like, yes, I finally caught one Well, I would catch one. There'd be like eight others. I'm like, oh, forget this dude. Yeah, can't get anywhere with this Crazy it's craziness. It's fun stuff.

Engaging the Audience

Hey, so if you're on here on thank you so much for jumping in and joining in on the livestream this week Robin are gonna jump into forgiveness in just a second, but I'll also say that on man If you're new around here, please don't hesitate to hit like subscribe share this show to help us get the word out to more people We plan on jumping on every single Wednesday and continuing to just dive into on discipleship topics The next few weeks we're gonna dive into addiction Robin and I both got some experience with that We've been been there ourselves and also in the comments below Man, if the Lord leads you I'm not going to shill and press too hard, but if on the Lord leads you Please don't hesitate to click the link below and you can support the show financially And kind of help this work that we're doing not just this podcast, but on And the Lord's really been dealing with me when helping other Christians who want to have a voice And want to have a platform to get their story out and I've been blessed to work with a couple folks and so I'll leave that alone because I know people jump off as soon as you start asking for donations and support and so

The Topic of Forgiveness

Yeah So this has in the office Yes, I know No, so I'm gonna see seven dollars for a seven seven seven But yeah, so Rob, let's talk about forgiveness man The topic this week is on making amends Forgiving You know forgiveness from God, but then extending forgiveness to ourselves and other people and on man So let's just jump right in. What do you think makes it so hard for us? Um, you know, I think sometimes we we on Certain people will struggle receiving forgiveness from God, you know I know there's there's different levels to this Some people receive forgiveness from God easily, but then have a hard time extending it to other people Especially if the offense has been pretty significant And then one layer deeper Breaking that shame and being able to forgive ourselves for the mistakes that we've walked through in the mistakes That we've dealt with in our lives and so um, let's just jump in man. What are your initial thoughts on forgiveness and you know kind of where's the Lord leading you in regards to talking about this topic?

The Personal Experience with Forgiveness

Yeah, yeah, you know, you know me just and I always like to Um Leave from a personal experience I'm especially from a place of I grew up around a lot of loving aunts My uncle, you know my grandmother, my cousins, they were all very supportive of my life and I think for me and the damage that I've done to my family when I was in my addiction um And even knowing that the mistakes that I made I was like forgiving it was kind of like I know I can make these mistakes and I'll still be forgiving kind of mentality But still even after all that I've done the damage that I've done the hurt the pain that I've caused And the love that they displayed to me through it all was very hard for me to really be able to process because I felt like I was dead at to them And so even in Them telling me hey look you've been forgiven. There's very like we still love you and so on and so forth No one behold there's still a lingering like Thought in the back of my mind. It's like hey look things still aren't quite right Because the reality is even though you're forgiven So the decisions and choices that we make begin to change the way that those relationships are built and developed their actor And so for me I kind of removed myself because of the hurt and the damage that I've done And then the lies that I've told myself has caused me not to even pursue them in the same capacity as I would have before I did all the hurt and the troubles and the pains and the individuals and so Due to it's hard man because even now I'm 34 years old I'm still dealing with things that I did before that I know I'm technically forgiven for them But I have it truly forgiven myself And I don't know how to sometimes I don't how to essentially process that because Uh Familiar spirits if you will circumstances and situations will surface itself in the head and they kind of lay dormant And I said this a couple podcasts before man, but I think the reality is is that I transitioned from teen challenge and marriage to my firstborn To like the real world and such a quick incident that I never really had the time to deal with some of the inner hurt and troubles That I had been dealing with all along, you know And so it's really about taking hold a new identity and learning how to Accept what God's words says about you, but it's the receiving that's hard You know, I can I can give But when it comes to me receiving even now like pride steps in the way I'm like nah you need some you need financial help Someone's like, yeah, I got you nah bro. I got I'll land it Meanwhile, you're struggling. You can't pay your bills or something like dude humble yourself And I think humility is the way that you can actually in that that that spirit of forgiveness and a lot of people to like really help you Um grow in in the areas of hurt and pain that you're struggling with

The Difficulties of Self-Forgiveness

In that like the garden, you know with Adam. I mean the whole initial sin there of wanting to be like God and the self-reliance and you know wanting to you know and sometimes that hinders our ability To have to feel like we need to receive something from anybody else Right, so whether that's forgiveness from God, you know, it's like well, why can't I just fix this on my own? Why do I why do I need somebody else to resolve this for me or you know, even that that thing you just said about Especially living the lifestyle of addiction We heard a lot of people in the process And so it really requires some humility to go back and you know Acknowledge those hurts and acknowledge that pain And then be able to receive that forgiveness, but then also mentally move on So that you know, we're not like Yeah, they still remember, you know, and then that's true to a degree, but like Getting over that hurdle of where That that unspoken her to that thing that has been forgiven We don't feel like it's impacting the relationship In the present and I think I think we beat ourselves up on two fronts in that regards And I can speak to myself, I feel bad about what I did to that person And I feel the shame associated with it because of what I did to them, but then I also internalize that like You know, what a scumbag I was, you know, right? And still no matter how much I've been forgiven There are still moments where like that inner Justin of who he used to be wants to come out the old man if you will, you know, and beat myself up for it. It's like man, have I ever really You're dealt with this stuff, you know, completely We you know, the thing is man, it's like for me a lot of it and the most influential person that was in my life was my grandmother And so Dude, I did things to my grandmother that I never really because she went through a phase of Alzheimer's and so Can't really communicate when somebody's going to that that mental, you know separation even though she knew who I was like I couldn't really Apologize and have a genuine conversation as I would have loved to And so in her passing I felt like there was not the restoration And the re the healing of that relationship the way I wanted it to be. Yeah, and even in other individuals lives Well, my friends, you know before I got in my mission. I don't even talk to them like there's things that I've done to them Whether it was taking money from them lie to them. So, you know, whatever it was I still have yet to be able to like reconcile and And to mend that relationship and in my mind. I think I always need to do that But think sometimes it's kind of like the David situation where David killed Youriah, you know, and and and and him killing him He never really like the Bible doesn't say that he asked for forgiveness or he you know like he forgave him for cheating on it You know the mean like no that stuff. I don't think he forgave or asked for forgiveness from basheba. He like You killed this man's husband or this this woman's husband and and then All of these things, you know unfold, but what he did was is he took his pain and his hurt to God Yeah, and allowed God to restore his heart, and I think that's the that's the key that We're so willing to or we're so Uh We desire so much to have our our restoration with man When in reality our restoration could be with God. Yeah, and then it can be and then it can be done with man And so it's like it's God first and and and and then man, you know, and so True forgiveness can only be received until you understand the forgiven the forgiveness has that has come from the father Yeah, it's basically what I'm getting at and I look like I got it. I'm sorry. I might have a crying baby guys Um, my wife sorry guys Um, I'm here. Hey, baby Yeah, well, I will keep talking. Oh, there he is. I mean on my she might she might come and go guys. This is like This is the real life this real life. Yeah This is how much we value pouring into you guys that we say hey look popcorn and the movie for the kids I want to do this live chat so that I can like at least share some nuggets with you guys That's that's that's the life man.

The Role of God in Forgiveness

You know, you made a point there man and that though about like When even though somebody's forgiven us the need to try to constantly pay that back Like we're constantly trying to mentally make amends it made me think of the scripture I've got some scriptures this week. We're getting super fancy But where the scripture says he does not deal with us according to our sins nor repay us according to our niceties For as high as the heavens are above the earth so great as his stepbast love toward those who fear him And really thinking about that from the perspective of having the mind of Christ and our relationships and being able to understand that there there are There are some steps we've got to take right when it comes to asking for forgiveness from other people Hatten hand making amends where it's necessary But then being able to have the mind of Christ that that like Like I've done all that I can do you know, I can't I can't continually live there anymore like I've got to like the past be the past And know that I've tried to acknowledge this make amends deal with the mistakes as much as possible But then ultimately try to have the mind of Christ so that that weight isn't constantly hindering that relationship In the present and I think I think we beat ourselves up on two fronts and that regards and I can speak to myself I feel bad about what I did to that person And I feel the shame associated with it because of what I did to them, but then I also internalize that like You know, what a scumbag I was, you know, right? And still no matter how much I've been forgiven There are still moments where like that inner Justin of who he used to be wants to come out the old man if you will, you know, and beat myself up for it. It's like man, have I ever really You're dealt with this stuff, you know, completely We you know, the thing is man is like for me a lot of it and the most influential person that was in my life was my grandmother And so Dude, I did things to my grandmother that I never really because she went through a phase of Alzheimer's and so Can't really communicate when somebody's going to that that mental, you know separation even though she knew who I was like I couldn't really Apologize and have a genuine conversation as I would have loved to And so in her passing I felt like there was not the restoration And the re the healing of that relationship the way I wanted it to be. Yeah.

Accepting Forgiveness

It does get complicated, you know especially when we talk about long-term wounds and offenses and the tendency to revisit those past wrongs. I think about the woman with the alabaster jar of oil and Jesus was invited to the Pharisees' home to dine with them and When they were dining they were basically like laying frosted on the foremost, you know Just like laying down. This is how they did it back in the Jewish culture and he said that who has been forgiven much Loves much And so it's understanding Right, it's it's so key. I think this is why Paul when he prayed for the churches He always said I pray that he would have spiritual wisdom knowledge Revelation of the Lord Because as the spirit of God reveals the Father to us We're able to give what has been given unto us to others. Yeah But the requirement is that we take the time to spend with the Lord in communion and in relationship in his word Because that's when we allow him to deal with our own heart But see what we often do is we remove ourselves from the surgeon's table And we attempt to live a life without the heart and the heartbeat of the Father The transformation right that the heart of stone needs to become the heart of flesh So that we're able to look at others through the same lens that the Father looks at us. Yeah.

Making Amends

And so then then we're then we're easy to show that grace to show that mercy And to develop a mind frame that says hey look I've been forgiven brother and and I'm not going to hold that against you and obviously you're not going to say this kind of words But at the same on the same respect you're not looking at the individual as less than You're almost lifting that person up From the struggle that they might have harmed you and then vice versa You have to humble yourself to like Recognize the hurt and the damage that you've done and that this isn't something that this person can just forget like you mentioned before It's a scar right I got injured and many of you guys probably can't see this But I got injured in Virginia at a a youth Event that we had at the church that I was ministering out of the time and my arm went through this glass window when you're playing in games the kids But with the moral of the story is I always have the scars a reminder of what happened that day. Yeah, that's good And so we leave scars I've left scars. I've been given scars and so I have to understand that we're fragile and that we're we're We're people that That you don't necessarily know how to do these things on our own, but we need the help of others Hey, I'm sorry. Let me go downstairs and get something really quick if you can meet me. I'm so sorry.

Navigating Forgiveness

Yeah, you're good, man. I think a lot about that man with forgiveness and Some of the stuff that I've walked through when you talked about he who has been forgiven much loves much and the amount of people that I've had to reach out to over my life through all my addiction and all of the mess that I walk through You know and expect and trust them to forgive me and so Realizing that there's been a lot of mercy extended my way And that the Lord has been gracious to me and not just the Lord, but other people have been so gracious On to me throughout the course of my life, you know Going back from parental relationships and stealing money when I was caught up in my addiction and then You know All of the stuff that I did to hurt people while I was running and ripping and doing all of that mess I went out before I came to Jesus and then all of a sudden, you know I got my life right with Christ and I began to reach out to these folks and ask them for forgiveness and so many of them Were gracious enough to extend that forgiveness to me And so there is a season there is a part of life where I feel like I owe a debt of gratitude to those folks But ultimately understanding that as their followers of Christ like they've been able to give what was given to them And the best way that I can repay them is having an attitude of forgiveness toward others who wrong me in the future You know, and I think I think that's a perspective shift for me That's really shifted my thinking and I think you and I talked about this in one of our first shows like I have an incredible ability not because of me, but to be patient with people Because so much patience has been showed with me over the course of my life and if I If I believe the scripture and you know, like I want to do to others as I would have them do unto me Then I know that I extend mercy grace and forgiveness as liberally as possible Because I hope that when I'm in the position of needing it That's returned now fortunately we have a god that that you know no condemnation If we confess our sins he's faithful and just to forgive them when we acknowledge our sins before him He will forgive us But we understand that the condition of that is that if I don't forgive other people Then I'm not in a position I'm not able to be a recipient of that forgiveness From God and so I think that's a part of kind of acknowledging that man This life is so Complicated and messy and difficult at times We're dealing with people everybody has a different personality Offense is going to run rampant if we're not in a position That we have that expectation that you know people are going to hurt me and a lot of times I think people hurt us and they don't we don't even realize they don't even realize they're doing it to us But we're oftentimes hurt because of our expectations on other people In some terms those expectations have never even been clearly communicated So they broke a boundary of ours. They've shoved it nice in us unknowingly Because we were either too prideful or too timid To clarify those expectations with the other people and then offense bros And then bitterness and then all of a sudden we find ourselves in this place where we've got unforgiveness in our hearts and Now we've got a vertical issue because our horizontal relationships weren't in the right spot

Boundaries and Forgiveness

Dude, that is so good man. That is so good Um, I love that you said That because of Um Sorry, the brain part. It's okay. Um, I heard the kids do something downstairs. I know my wife is supposed to be home soon But yeah, no, it's I think it's just it's a it's just a measure man It's the standard that we are the expectation that that's what I was looking for is the expectation that we saw Other people and man, I've done this even in my own marriage I've had this expectation of my wife To do something and it It's so funny because like I didn't realize how damaging it was until I realized that there was almost like a similar expectation of me And she called me out on it and I was just like Oh Like that's that hurts, you know, so um It's just it's one of those things man. What were you don't realize that it's not really all about you When you realize it's not all about you then you can really begin to like shift But I you know kind of like Making a a direction turn when it comes to Addiction how does somebody that's in their addiction just and that might not even know god How do they overcome? being forgiven How do they how do they accept forgiveness from others in their addiction? But yet yet in return how do they forgive themselves to not remain in that state? Yeah, we talked about it a few minutes ago about the hardest stone becoming hard to flesh Right, and so I mean the number one place to start is vertical right if we're if we're not Confessing our sins to god You know first John one seven, right? It says it says I got this verse here If we confess our sins he's faithful and just He'll forgive us our sins and then purify us from all unrighteousness, right? And so That's the starting point like for this is like getting forgiveness from god and understanding that he has a desire to extend that Forgiveness to us no matter what we've done And I know that that doesn't make sense on the surface But that's the right grace that comes through Jesus But then As we get our vertical relationship right our hardest stone begins to become a heart of flesh Then we start to be able to see the other areas and the other relationships in our lives I didn't care before I got my life right with Christ you know what I'm saying My conscience had become so seared that I was willing to take and take and steal and do whatever I needed to do In order to get my fix or get my high You know that it didn't matter all the damage that I was doing was inconsequential When I gave my life to Christ The Holy Spirit began to speak to me again And it was almost on it was almost overwhelming you know when you start to get that clear mind and then you realize that Oh my gosh Like I I messed over a lot of people in my addiction And the challenge I think there is that You've got to be patient with yourself Because you're not going to fix them all overnight You know it's it's going to be one at a time and I'm going to I'm going to try to make amends Slowly and begin to do this work over time because god's been patient with me And he's going to continue to be patient as we start to make things right

Acknowledging the Complexity of Forgiveness

Yeah, yeah, that's I think that's it speaks volumes Just even for me man because I think I was just telling you earlier today like offline, but I'm struggling with this in-between stage. I'm in this field of solar and It's well. It's great money and all but I have also the pull to want to step into Full-time ministry and do what I believe that the Lord is calling to do Even on a level of something like this and and this pouring back into the communities because of everything that's been given unto me and so I'm Living in and we had this chat a couple weeks ago, but I had an opportunity to work with this guy named Chris France And like it really liked to struck a nerve inside part of me doesn't forgive myself For not saying yes I'm saying no And so like you you lived this lie of The path being the identity of who you are And not enjoying the process and the journey of what god is doing Through that scenario and situation to help build you for the next best thing And so like for me like I look at the children of Israel They were taken out of Egypt they had this luxurious lifestyle that they could eat and drink whenever they want Then they were crying about being in bondage and slavery Well they go through this process to get to the promise But yet in the process they won't you know they murmured and complained the whole time And so they began to look back at the past Not realizing the benefit of their future And so this process of forgiving and being forgiven is a journey And it's uncomfortable why because you've allowed yourself to be numbed by something else Beforehand that now that you have to like Face this thing head on you know what I mean? Yeah, it's caused you to become uncomfortable And I think it's uncomfortable Saying I forgive you And then accepting forgiveness from the person that you've harmed Yeah, it's it's it's confrontational dude. It's it's very uncomfortable And the best is like it's a game that between my wife and I in our house But like if I've done something wrong or even if she did something wrong I'll be the first one to go downstairs and apologize and be like babe. I'm sorry I didn't handle that well because like it's marking on it's no rewarding But it's just rewarding. It's like there's no more tension You can't hold anything against me and I'm gonna be willing to like humble myself and say like it wasn't me You know what I mean? Yeah, he kind of beat her to the punch but like That's the thing dude like I'm done with being uncomfortable and I need to learn how to confront what the enemy is trying to keep me in bondage to Yeah, yeah share to link in the comments for those watching but on I had a friend on this podcast a few months back and he on He made a lot of mess when he was in addiction like arson charges and all kinds of stuff and Ends it up getting into that point where he was trying to live that life of just seeing the next yes And when on When he finally got into a position where He had to do some jail time. He still wanted to serve in ministry got out of jail wasn't expecting to do the jail time He thought that it all had been resolved Came home finally got all that resolved and wanted to start serving in ministry And done him and his family get t-boned And have a terrible car accident like broken vertebrae lacerated liver. I mean all kinds of stuff and his story is in the comments But What ended up happening like being in this position of just saying yes to the Lord and trying to stay faithful Through the car accident. It wasn't their fault. He got this massive settlement And this huge settlement that allowed him to go back and pay off the restitution for the arson charge He was supposed to be on probation his entire life and through this accident all things work together for the good God allowed him to get this cash in his hand to go pay this restitution In that process this blew my mind. I never I've known this guy for a long time John And I never heard this part of the story before But he was reminded of a job that he had for a very short stint At a bowling alley and he stole like two thousand dollars from the bowling alley And the Lord dealt with him while he has all this cash in his pocket You need to go make that right you didn't just deal from his business you took out of his kids and owls Was basically the correction the Lord had given him And so he wrestled with whether to go down there whether to go confront him face to face because the last thing he heard from him was You know, I don't ever want to see your face again And so he's in this battle of like how do I make this right? How do I fix it? And so he decided to do it face to face he drove down there and he got to share his testimony Put two thousand dollars in the guy's hands and you know has her forgiveness and make amends And beat Jesus to that guy. I don't know the rest of the story But on On whether the guy was a Christian whether it was a non-Christian But on for those that are watching if you're interested That link is in the comments and you can catch that snippet of John's testimony We actually talked for an entire hour. It was pretty pretty powerful, but I think that's forgiveness you said and the reason I said that is because you said I've got to be willing to be uncomfortable Right like I've got to be willing to be Uncomfortable whether I feel that I'm right whether I feel that I'm wrong whether I can justify it. I can't justify it Like taking that step of forgiveness is being willing to Sacrifice My feelings in the moment make amends Bear with my brother or my sister in Christ and forgive is the Lord forgave us because What it costs for Jesus to be able to offer our forgiveness Was so uncomfortable And so the weight of what he had to go through to shed his blood to be able to extend forgiveness and offer a sacrifice That was worthy to cover our sins was painful It was humiliating He was naked before people in the cross And if we have that in mind I'm okay to give up a little bit of pride for the sake of Reconciling with somebody You know

Trusting in God's Forgiveness

Yeah, dude, that's so good man. You know because I pulled this up online It's about self forgiveness. It's just forgiveness whether Of someone else or yourself can mean you accept actions and behaviors that occur While willing to move forward Forgive me yourself. I mean letting go of the feelings and emotions associated with that would went wrong Because it's it's so important dude because it's about It's about your mental health Everything You know stepping into sale but just in life in general everything is Developed here in the mind And then we begin to we begin to play out scenarios in our mind It's like oh that person's forgiveness and I don't want to Just because you Christian don't act holy and rap because I know you thought about this if you listen But somebody hard you like that dirty mother You know what I mean and like I want to And it's like hold up they wronged you but now you're trying to return evil with evil Yeah So so who's actually writing this scenario? Yeah, you know what I mean and so the thing is is that this is where the danger comes into play because you mentioned this earlier If God has forgiven you In the person that harmed you And you can't forgive then you're like the parable or the story that Jesus told about the man that was in debt and he said Who has been forgiven much loves much? And then what he go ahead and do after he was forgiven He went ahead and put the other dude in bondage because he owed him money That's right and it got turned back on him And so we cannot put ourselves in this position of without excuse the reason why God Allows things to happen in the manner in which they do Is so that his love can be displayed through the heart and the vessel of the individual that he's rising up That's good Yeah, all in opportunity But yet if we do not walk by the spirit We will not understand the things that God is trying to to accomplish In and through us But yet we make it so personal like why me why am I going through this why this person harm me All I've done was loved them Well, I can tell you why you know the meaning it's like if you if you really begin to look deep You'll find the answers in the key to the why But you cannot allow that person's wrongdoing To cause you to cut them off so abruptly that you never get the opportunity to reconcile that relationship Yeah, or to do your part if you will you know what I mean And so like for me personally man like I'm not going to mention names and situations, but There's an individual that I know that is going through some some extreme hurt And this person is angry with God because of what happened to her And because of the individual that doesn't want to admit the wrong that they had done She's unwilling to even reconcile the relationship And it's caused her to live a miserable life and she doesn't even know that her life is miserable Because of these things and it's like man. I wish I can just get it through your head But what you're doing to yourself is causing more damage and you just being humble enough to say you know what I forgive you So let me ask you they don't want to admit you know what I mean? And so let me ask you a question there though because I know I'm sure it probably crossing people's mind when you when you mention that on So in that situation when the person is not willing to admit the wrongdoing and We're eating ourselves up because they want to admit where they made the mistake We’ve got to extend forgiveness What about boundaries right? So yeah, what does reconciliation look like if they're unwilling to Meet you you know at that place when you offer forgiveness?

Navigating Boundaries and Forgiveness

Yeah, man, this is this is a hard one and the reason why I believe this is hard for me is because I Believe that injuries are a really good thing boundaries are very healthy um And they're necessary But I see God that doesn't really have boundaries when it comes to us And this is why it's hard for me is because And please somebody correct me and give me pushback whether in the comments or even you Justin But I look at all the wrong that I've done with God. I know that we're not God So we can't necessarily administer the same in that regard But what I'm saying is is that God doesn't like say okay, you messed up. Therefore You're unwilling to admit these things. I'm going to stop pursuing you Or I'm going to put this boundary to where you can't come like the boundaries there I guess if you will like you know the veil had to be torn or she have to come through Christ first But at the same time like God is always in pursuit of us But there is a level of boundaries, I guess if he displays and so I guess I'm answering my own question Because my wife talks about this all the time You know that she has to set boundaries with certain individuals in her life because how they harm her Even though she's forgiven them. She loves them But in my mind, I kind of look at it and I'm saying are you truly forgiving them? Do you truly love them and accept them open with open arms again like? Or is your boundary saying I don't want to have to deal with that anymore. I've said it verbally. And so that's enough And so that that's where I guess I wrestle because like The way I kind of look at things and this is just my my way of thinking sometimes is When you truly forgive somebody you don't hold that against them any longer It's not that you don't work You won't recall what happened, but you don't hold that against them Yeah, because that gets hard man when you start to talk about some of the on Hmm Like some of the real deep seated like physical abuse issues and all of that like And I do I do think and I just want to clarify this because I don't I don't think Rob is suggesting that And I know he's not suggesting that we open ourselves up to be abused again, right? Like there are clear boundaries in those regards I just wanted to clear that up because I didn't want anybody to think You know what I'm saying? You know, and so Rob definitely isn't saying that But like I think for most offenses, right? Like most offenses other than some of these real deep seated physical where there is risk of physical harm Like we've just got to extend the grace. You know what I'm saying and on I think that's it, man Yeah, we were It's like I don't know I can't remember the case But there was a case where gentlemen killed a family member And the family of the killed individual Walked up to the person that killed his son or daughter. I forgot what it was And embraced them with the hug. Yeah, and loved them Yeah, I think that was the shooting in Charleston years ago. Okay, I remember Yeah But but the thing is that's what I'm talking about yeah That's what the Bible talks about when it comes to loving your enemy Yeah Because the thing is if you cast them astray What is the opportunity that you've missed to win them to Christ? Yeah And that and that's that's hard I'm not I'm not saying that this is easy Oh, what I'm saying yeah, but what I'm saying is You need to be so open to the idea of Because that's what the father wants and this is what I mean by walking by the spirit Because some people can be reckless and open themselves back up and get hurt again Because of their stupidity and leaning on their own understanding But what I mean is as you have to be intentional to seek the father's faith for direction and guidance And how to handle a situation god says there's wisdom in a multitude of counsel. God has also given us An order of how to address harm and hurt within the church Matthew 18 And so we need to understand these things. I'm not saying just be reckless But what I'm saying is is that we're intentional about our relationship with God often the father will reveal the way Yeah, and that goes that goes back to like where we started in this whole conversation Getting out of self-reliance Right every single bit of this is a work of the spirit every single part of this is a god empowered thing It is not in me to want to offer forgiveness You know and extend it like or even receive it But when we walk by the spirit versus walking by the flesh Then we begin to do things according to his principles and his precepts, you know and that And it's not going to happen overnight But as we walk in the spirit we work out our salvation with fear and trembling You know understanding we're going to make mistakes. We're going to get it wrong along the way But we're leaning in the Holy Spirit seeking counsel from other people Then we're in a much better position to be able to do this correctly and appropriately And on give and receive forgiveness liberally

Closing Thoughts and Prayer on Forgiveness

Dude, I just want to add to this. I I don't know who's listening to this and like I'm not trying like just have this vague Thought but I can't walk away from what I've been hearing the Holy Spirit press upon my heart There's somebody that's going to listen to this or even is currently listening to this right now That needs to understand that they've been forgetting Like you you've you've been forgiven Like I want a week for you right now. That's how much it hurts like you're in a bondage In your own mind and in your own body that you don't even know how to be freed in Because of all the harm and the hurt that you've done And so I just want like What do you message Justin or myself offline like I would love to be able to like just talk to you Because I can feel the burden in the way that you're carrying Yeah, that's good man I think we will we will leave it there I think that's a great place to To wrap it up and on I'm going to take a moment man. I just want to pray for anybody that may be watching And we'll kind of we'll kind of close out that This conversation that direction. I know we talked about Rob before before we finish on Potentially moving this to like three o'clock your time, which is six o'clock my time Yeah, you know, so I think that's probably an out clarify. I'll put a post up with a reminder for the next live But I think for those that are on the east coast On this will be more six o'clock So you're not trying to do this in the drive home or whatever middle of your work day Watching this show, but on This has been a powerful conversation. We covered a lot of stuff Forgiveness is a deep topic. I know for those who have been victimized the idea of extending forgiveness to other people is just Is difficult. It's hard on it. It stars up a lot of emotions For those of us who have made a lot of mistakes and heard a lot of other people And are living You know in Christ and we you know the seer conscious is going away There's a potential for a lot of guilt and a lot of shame And I just want to pray and to each of those things as we wrap up So Father we just come before you and we thank you God That we have truly been forgiven much We thank you for your sacrifice on the cross that laid down your life for us Lord So that we might live and walk and freedom And Lord, I just pray now for those who are listening that have ever either been the recipient of hurt And they're struggling extending that forgiveness I pray first off that they would just look at the The work that you did on the cross The lengths that you were willing to go to get to them And Lord, I know there's a lot of nuance in this conversation and I just pray that we would look at it as simply as possible And be willing to give grace and give forgiveness Lord, as it's been given us Ultimately knowing that our heart isn't to beat up on people that don't forgive because God We've all been there And for those who have maybe made some mistakes and have on hurt other people and are dealing with the guilt and shame associated with that And maybe they've asked for forgiveness and they've not received a response And the person that they're trying to forgive is still better and frustrated And Lord, we get it I pray that they would also have patience and grace as well To just know that their responsibility is just simply to extend the forgiveness And beyond that Lord, once they've made restitution, if they've been able to I pray that you're given the ability to just put it in your hands And trust that you're going to do the rest But thank you for Rob. I thank you for these conversations Got an our ability and our opportunity to engage with one another And on Lord just continue to Try to help people grow in this faith as we're trying to grow ourselves It's in the name of Jesus, we pray Amen. Amen It's good, Rob. We Well, thanks man. I'm going to hit end real quick Hey, thank you all for watching again If you enjoyed any of this conversation please like, comment, share Do all the things to help spread the conversation And then as well if you feel glad or compelled to support the show Those links are in the comments as well So God bless you guys and I appreciate you